Hey GWI, is this illegal????
by Gildo on Mar 30, 2011 4:06 PM MST
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"ANAHEIM – The City Council on Tuesday approved the issuance of $75 million in bonds, a move that lays the groundwork for the Sacramento Kings basketball team to move to Anaheim's Honda Center next season.
In a vote that Mayor Tom Tait called "historic," the council voted unanimously for the bonds: $25 million for upgrades to the city-owned Honda Center, and $50 million in working capital, money that could help pay for the Kings' relocation fees."
I guess I'm very confused how this is much different. I understand that they are not subsidizing the cost for an owner to obtain a team, but in a sense they kind of are... Shouldn't relocation fees be paid by an owner? And if so, wouldn't the city of Anaheim be subsidizing a professional team in order to hopefully boost revenues and job growth in their city? Maybe GWI could focus their efforts on the legality of this bond sale and decide once and for all what they want to do with the one affecting our team. I'm at the point where I do not feel like the Coyotes deal is going to happen, and I almost want to start a class-action lawsuit against GWI for making a deal nearly impossible. Sue on what grounds you ask? The same ones that GWI has threatened with. "I think that what they have done is likely to be illegal, but I don't know for sure yet so I need more time and more documents, and no I will not talk to them about it, but I will parade around and talk to anyone else willing to listen to me to garner support for "my cause"(which I and everyone else knows is for myself)". Hey, whatever works right?
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Devils Advocate here
That is in California. GWI is sying the coyotes deal is illegal under AZ law.
As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
DISCLAMER: Any and all trash talk is intended in a light hearted manner. Failure to take trash talk in this manner may result in foolish anger, looking stupid or Red Wings Fandom. Do not take TimmyHate Trashtalk if you are suffering a heart condition, have had a funectomy or support a return to Winnipeg.
no i get it.
its just a very similar situation, at the exact same time. I’m just saying that they still haven’t even said if it IS illegal under AZ law, just that they THINK it is. Shouldn’t they be more certain before they send letters to bond rating agencies? GWI could put Glendale in an even worse position now that the Fiesta Bowl and BCS National Championship (every 4th year) might not be played there thanks to greed by a CEO. I just don’t see how GWI thinks they are helping the tax payers here… thats all.
Easy answer – GWI doesn’t give a Airborne Fornication about the taxpayers. GWI cares about GWI.
As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
DISCLAMER: Any and all trash talk is intended in a light hearted manner. Failure to take trash talk in this manner may result in foolish anger, looking stupid or Red Wings Fandom. Do not take TimmyHate Trashtalk if you are suffering a heart condition, have had a funectomy or support a return to Winnipeg.
by TimmyHate on Mar 31, 2011 5:49 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I'm stealing that for work...
Airborne Fornication
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Apr 1, 2011 5:40 AM MST up reply actions
Never mind.
I took it off. A certain grammar nazi I can’t stand saw it and commented on it.
Per Mare, Per Terras
? who?
just curious, you don’t have to answer.
La vida no se ha hecho para comprenderla, sino para vivirla.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 2, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
Lol
Well briefly I was double sig’d! woop woop
As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
DISCLAMER: Any and all trash talk is intended in a light hearted manner. Failure to take trash talk in this manner may result in foolish anger, looking stupid or Red Wings Fandom. Do not take TimmyHate Trashtalk if you are suffering a heart condition, have had a funectomy or support a return to Winnipeg.
Not only that
But Anaheim owns the Arena in Anaheim. They issued bonds that are being bought by private investors to renovate their own arena. It’s a very common practice. A city issuing bonds to finance an millionaire’s direct purchase of a franchise is unprecedented. Bit of a different situation.
by athletics68 on Apr 19, 2011 10:40 PM MST up reply actions
did you notice
how these self appointed watch dogs just jumped all over the scandal with the Fiesta Bowl? Yeah, they really do have our best interest at heart…
{/ratherheavysarcasm}
La vida no se ha hecho para comprenderla, sino para vivirla.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Mar 31, 2011 6:54 PM MST reply actions
While that deal is in California where they subsidize everything and have no qualms about it or laws against it, it brings up an interesting point that in that other cities recognize the obvious financial benefits of professional sports franchises. Something GWI is going out of their way to prove Glendale doesn’t need for some odd reason.
Instead of simply just focusing on the case they don’t have a chance of winning anyway, they continue these press releases about how jobing.com will be just fine because some arena in Kansas is doing fine or the parking revenues at Yankee stadium are adding up and blah blah blah. Shouldn’t they just be quietly proceeding with their potential lawsuit without all the hoopla?
Anyway, It seems odd to me really that the lengths GWI is going to try to prove their case to the public. It’s like a political campaign gone haywire. This leads me to my next point, just today GWI newbie Attorney Carrie Ann Sitren told the city of Glendale (via press release or course) not to repeat the mistakes of the New York Yankees and their bond situation that was supposed to be repaid by charging for parking. Now, comparing Glendale to the Bronx is like comparing the Grand Canyon to Oak Creek Canyon. For one thing, less than 50% of New Yorkers own cars, even less drive them to work, let alone a Yankees game where the trains and subways make stops aplenty, so it stands to reason the parking garage would be 60% empty. Last time I checked there is no subway system in Arizona and I think they Light Rail may be a tad short of reaching Jobing.com. It’s really an awful comparison and I really think they are reaching when it comes to such comparisons.
The other recent comparison they made was the arena in Kansas or wherever that apparently is all kinds of successful with no professional sports franchise anchoring the venue. I wonder how hard they had to search for one that is successful. I would also like to know the regional competition, last time I checked the Phoenix area has all kinds of arena’s vying for events.
The only thing that is really clear is that GWI is relishing in the limelight and with that any claim of "independence" went out the door a long time ago.
thank you for the comment Mike...
I think you’re basically on track with what I was trying to put out there but stated it much more eloquently. I think we all agree that GWI is a “watchdog” for nobody or anything but their own political agenda…
But economists are in near unanimous agreement that the economic benefits of having a pro sports franchise in a given community are wildly exaggerated.
The other recent comparison they made was the arena in Kansas or wherever that apparently is all kinds of successful with no professional sports franchise anchoring the venue. I wonder how hard they had to search for one that is successful. I would also like to know the regional competition, last time I checked the Phoenix area has all kinds of arena’s vying for events.
I don’t think they had to search very hard, because there simply aren’t lots of modern arenas in operation without major pro sports franchises anchoring them. Can you think of any others? The only other ones I can come up with were built decades ago, like Key Arena in Seattle or the Colisee Pepsi in Quebec City.
Incidentally, though, MTS Centre in Winnipeg is a modern arena that has no top-tier pro sports franchise, and in 2008, it was the 11th-busiest arena in North America and the 19th-busiest arena in the world. So most modern arenas without major pro franchises as anchors are, in fact, quite viable.
As for the bit about regional competition – well, them’s the breaks, you know? “Our arena will be unprofitable and empty” is nowhere close to being a good reason that a franchise should stay somewhere instead of move.
As for the bit about regional competition – well, them’s the breaks, you know? "Our arena will be unprofitable and empty" is nowhere close to being a good reason that a franchise should stay somewhere instead of move.
Huh? Are you for real?
Absolutely. The only reasons good enough to keep a team somewhere are that someone wants to own it in that place, it is profitable, and lots of people go to the games. You disagree?
Saying that a team should remain somewhere because the arena it plays in will otherwise be unprofitable and empty is saying that the team is a charity.
Yes, but we have an owner that wants to own the team in Phoenix, that could be profitable and have lots of people attend games if the team was well run. That’s the truth. The Blackhawks were unprofitable with poor ownership that kept folks from going to games and now they have 103% attendance and a shiny new trophy in the case. There’s no reason that the Coyotes can’t be profitable in Phoenix with an owner that cares about the team, which is what they deserve.
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by Jordan Ellel on Apr 19, 2011 10:13 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, I’m with you. And if Hulsizer is committed and wants to buy the team and keep it in Phoenix and be a good owner, I would love to see that happen. I was just responding to certain comments that seemed to be suggesting that anyone outside of Glendale/Phoenix should be throwing some kind of pity party for the all the poor people who would lose money if the arena went dark.
I take your point about Chicago, but there are a couple of key differences. A lot of people had the sense that there was a dormant hockey fanbase in Chicago throughout the whole Bill Wirtz era that was ready to reawaken whenever the team got smart again. Second is that, yes, it’s true, they didn’t draw well during the darkest days of those years, but the team consistently charged above-league-average prices for tickets. Not once in its history hasthe average Phoenix ticket cost more than the league average.
If there can be a happy solution for the Coyotes in Phoenix, I say let it be so. But I feel more and more like I’m watching a bloody, stammering Mortal Kombat character with the words FINISH HIM! when I look at the team.
I was an Expos fan, and I lived in Montreal when the team left town. It was heartbreaking. That said, in those last couple of years when the team was owned by MLB and they were playing games in Puerto Rico every season, I found it hard to argue that the circumstances at that moment justified keeping the franchise in town. I could argue until I was blue in the face about lousy ownership in the past, and fire sales where we got rid of Larry Walker and Pedro Martinez, and the crappy, decrepit stadium that was located much too far away from the natural baseball fanbase in town, but the fact was that the ship on all those things, by let’s say 2003, had sailed.
I see a lot of similarities when I read about the situation with the Coyotes. My sympathies.
Where was AuH2O when the City Of Mesa was cutting the Cubs every kind of deal and tax break they could think of...
…in order to keep the Cubs in mesa for spring training.
Let’s see… tax breaks for a team that plays in Arizona for six weeks out of the year = good. Tax breaks for a team that plays in Arizona for six months out of the year = bad.
If anyone believes that AuH2O is a “watchdog” for anyone’s interests by their own, then I have some land in Florida I’d like to interest you in…
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Apr 16, 2011 1:00 PM MST reply actions
and these same watchdogs
were all over the corruption at the Fiesta Bowl. Plus, did you see them go after sheriff joe when it was learned he misspent $100million of taxpayer dollars? {/sarcasm}
La vida no se ha hecho para comprenderla, sino para vivirla.
by unnamedDBacksfan on Apr 16, 2011 7:36 PM MST up reply actions
Interesting turn of events in Anaheim this morning
According to Mark Kriedler via his twitter…
"Rob Stutzman confirms his group cruised past needed sigs to force public vote on Anaheim bonds. Collecting plenty extras now in case of DQs.
Rob already has sent letter to NBA explaining exactly what this means: $75 mil bonds now cannot be issued until public approves."
So in other words, there will be no 75 million in bonds issued to upgrade the Honda Center to make it NBA ready before next season. And possibly not at all if the ballot measure fails at the next election. So apparently GWI isn’t the only one objecting to bonds being used on sports teams. Anaheim now can’t even use it to upgrade their own arena (as opposed to buying the team like Glendale).
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