Coyotes Staying in Phoenix: I Hate to Say I Told You So
by Travis Hair on Jun 16, 2009 2:36 AM MST
21 comments
The Hives - Hate To Say I Told You So (via ThisBalladSucks)
Actually in this case I really don't hate to say I told you so. The vast majority of media sources and bloggers (Eh they aren't credible anyhow) were predicting doom and gloom for the endangered Coyotes. I can't think of that many people that have predicted what would happen...hmmm... I can't even tell you how many times I stuck up for my belief that we would win at least this battle of the war just to have people tell me to keep dreaming. So is it elegant or maybe sporting of me to say I lod you so now? Maybe not. But I'm doing it anyways. Why? Because I feel as though I've earned it. I can't tell you how absolutely tiring it's been to constantly see that scorn for my city and it's fans. (Insert number of Coyote fan joke here) And how utterly disappointing it's been to see the attitudes of large numbers of fans that Either overlooked the fans here that do support the team, or worse, just didn't care and told us all to just give up the team "for the good of the game". Quite frankly I'm not one to mince words and those people can suck it.
Is this fight completely over yet? No. Balsillie is insisting that he'll continue to fight on and that he looks forward to negotiating with the NHL and it's review of his relocation application. Like that's going to happen. We still need to find a new owner that will keep the team here. 12 news in Phoenix is already reporting that the Breslow led group will be puting an offer in. So there is progress toward that end. But there is a LOT that Coyote fans will still have to endure in the coming weeks. More after The Jump...
The first thing that Coyotes Fans are going to have to deal with is the fact that while we may have won this battle the other side isn't going to give up so easily. By other side i'm not even talking about Balsillie, i'm talking about writers and internet folk that will fight tooth and nail that the desision that came down to day really doesn't mean anything. Just so that everyone is on the same page here, IT MEANS A LOT. While there's already a plethora of people that are stating that all that was rejected in Judge Baum's Decision was the schedule that's simply not the case. The most important part of the decision, and the one that Coyotes fans can throw at anyone that asks comes from pages 9-11 of the decision in which the Judge (and i'm summarizing) says that PSE can't simply assume all the benefits of the signed agreement between the team and the NHL, which outlines the franchise agreement, and throw out the language that the team would play all it's home games in Glendale along with other bits that didn't suit the Balsillie/Moyes side. If Balsillie wanted the team he would have to buy it and then go through the NHL process of relocation. That's simply not going to happen. With this ruling the team will be here as long as the NHL desires it to be. That brings us to the second thing Coyotes fans need to be ready for...
Fine, you're not moving... YET. We win the first battle just to have bitter Hamiltonians, or others that simply want the team to move, throw the "Bettman will just move you later" line at us. Super. Well my response to that would be. That's later, for now I still have NHL hockey at the arena 2 miles from my house. Someday it's possible this team could be moved. It's also possible that any number of other teams could be as well. Anything is possible but when we have a compitent owner that knows how to build a franchise this team will sell out Jobing.com Arena and it's going to be a non-issue. I know I know, that's a big IF. Sure, but look at how Chicago suffered with bad ownership. No one was watching those games until the young talent started producing and the ownership changed.
Overall we need to be ready for the five stages of grief that Balsillie supporters Will be going through...
1. Denial - "This isn't over!" "It's just a scheduling issue!" "We're still taking your team" "Hockey doesn't belong in the desert!"
2. Anger - "Your team still sucks!" "Bettman is ruining hockey!" "I'm never watching the NHL again!"
3. Bargaining - "We'll just poach your team later when it still fails" "We'll get an expansion team and beat the crap out of you guys" "We'll give you the Raptors and Blue Jays for the Coyotes"
4. Depression - "This is the end of the NHL" "I can't watch hockey anymore..."
5. Acceptance - Okay, probably not this one. Though there may be a stray passive-agressive "Enjoy your hockey team... while it lasts"
That's all I have for now. I'm exhausted but now it's time to get back to our regular programming and away from all this BS. I'll leave you with this quote from SNL "Suck it Trebek (Balsillie). Suck it long, and suck it hard..."
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Balsillie's not done...
There’s no way for him to get a team this year and relocate. I’m guessing there will be a lot of backchannel negotiating over the course of the season, and the Thrashers will be in Hamilton after this season. Still, Balsillie’s going to have to pay a fortune to the Leafs and Sabres.
HOCKEENIGHT.COM...home of FRIDAY NIGHT FIGHTS and LEAVE IT TO BETTMAN...now with PODCASTING!!!
by Forklift14 on Jun 16, 2009 5:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
His lawyer is saying it is not over, and that they’re waiting to hear from the league in regards to their relocation application, he also said that they’re expecting to work with the league on moving the Yotes.
"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)
by Winkle on Jun 16, 2009 6:08 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and a flock of winged monkeys
will fly outta my butt first.
"He who controls the Spice, controls the universe! "
by unnamedDBacksfan on Jun 16, 2009 7:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Stick a fork in him
He is done. He could techinically buy the Yotes if his unconditional bid is the highest, but the NHL would keep in them in Phoenix.
I hate to sound a down note on a day of victory, but I just thought of something. The judge said the team can’t just be moved into another team’s territory without appropriate (enormous) compensation. But if another buyer took ownership of the team, the case law seems to state they could move them to an open region (like Vegas or KC or even Winnipeg). There is obviously much less $$$ pulling in that direction, but it is still something to worry about someday.
by elricsi on Jun 16, 2009 10:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem is that the Coyotes are still going to lose tens of millions of dollars this season – this ruling doesn’t change that. How long can that go on? Who has made anything approaching a proposal that would somehow change that fact?
by dzuunmod on Jun 16, 2009 11:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
if they get
out from under moyes overspending on office rental, charter flights, gretzkys salary, and get some minor concessions from glendale then the $losses drop dramatically…an owner that knows how to run a sports franchise and that can market jobing.com arena for other activities can go a long way toward making the yotes profitable…getting the local media behind the team and marketing it will increase attendance cause we already got a pretty good product to put on the ice even without the draft or any ufas.
who will rid me of this damn priest?
by goldenbear64 on Jun 16, 2009 12:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The judge said that the league has the right to approve or deny relocation, whether or not it’s into an already-assigned territory, and has the right to charge a reasonable pre-compensation baseline relocation fee (IIRC, $25-$30M was the order of the day for the Avs, Yotes and Canes – inflate that and you’re probably talking $35-$40M today). The approval/denial vote could potentially result in an actionable wrong in bankruptcy court or an independent antitrust case, but such a vote never happened.
The two smackdowns to Balsillie/PSE were that he never actually applied to relocate the club before going to court (thus the NHL never committed a potential wrong that the judge could rectify) and that Balsillie, even if he purchased the team, would be required to assume the Glendale lease and negotiate his way out of it rather than the court simply cutting Glendale off as Balsillie requested.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Jun 16, 2009 11:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
What’s frustrating is that no one seems to get that out of the ruling. THey just see it didn’t totally shut Balsillie out. It just says. Sure you can have the team. If the NHL says you can. And then you can move it, if the NHL says you can.
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Five For Howling
by Travis Hair on Jun 16, 2009 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Balsillie has played the Canadian media like a piano.
His initial relocation agreement asked for everything but a damned pony, including some things that were certain to get shot down (no indemnity to the Leafs or Sabres). The certain things got shot down, but the one he didn’t want to lose was the Glendale arena lease break – and the Canadian media assumed that since (in their view) no one local cared about the team, the judge and/or the city would just let Balsillie slide on it. They’re still assuming that from the city, which is why they aren’t making as big a deal about it as they should (well, that and their being completely in the nationalistic tank).
Balsillie’s still going to sue if he gets rejected on a relocation application and/or if the indemnity fee is too high. Relocation approval rights in the abstract are the piece that the leagues will all go to the Supreme Court together for if they have to, though. It will wreck North American sports if that goes down.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Jun 16, 2009 12:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Odin, with respect I don’t think the ruling does necessarily say that Balsillie (or any buyer) would have to take the lease and negotiate a way out of it; it says that Glendale’s recovery on the lease might be capped and that no one has yet demonstrated to the court’s satisfaction that the damage to Glendale would be disproportionate to the positive effect of Balsillie’s proposal on the creditors. He’s left that decision for another day.
Given that Balsillie’s motion was dismissed “without prejudice” (meaning he’s free to renew his proposal, minus the stumbling blocks the judge has pointed out), that the team remains in bankruptcy, and that Balsillie has been at least implicitly approved as an owner by the court notwithstanding the league’s wishes, I think it’s fair to say that – although this was a big victory for the NHL – the game is far from over yet.
My $.02 on the ruling is here.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Jun 16, 2009 6:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The language is actually pretty clear. The judge states that part of the team’s agreement with the NHL was that they would play all their home games in Glendale. You’re right that they don’t have to negotiate out of it, it’s that they have to have the NHL’s approval to move the team that was important in the decision. He ruled that they couldn’t take all the benefits of the agreement and just forget about the fact the contract they were assuming said they would play in Glendale.
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Five For Howling
by Travis Hair on Jun 16, 2009 6:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The coyotes can still be moved but there are a couple of provisions that make that a hard sell. First off the antitrust is bogus, you can’t claim antitrust if you haven’t been denied yet. And with the ruling I doubt it will be an issue even if it is denied, there is too much red tape there to make an effective argument with the current situation. So any move to Hamilton will have territorial rights from 2 ends and they can be quite expensive. Second the lease would still be valid can have huge fees associated with it. Thank God or any other deity we have a new arena with a long team lease on it. Glendale made a good argument and I think any relocation will have to deal with their lease and the penalties with it. Third is the relocation fees. Given the low value of the Coyotes and the potential of cities to move too this fee also looks to be in the hundreds of million dollars too. So all told the cost to move the Coyotes looks to be more then the hole we find ourselves in. Relocation seems to be a VERY expensive proposition with the Coyotes. Interested movers might need to look at expansion instead of relocation.
Thank you Glendale for your nice big anchor that will keep the Coyotes in the desert for a long time.
by GalenYote on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Congrats Coyote fans . . .
. . . from a Predator fan who went through this two years ago with this guy. It’s a great feeling, eh?
by HartnellsMop on Jun 16, 2009 2:32 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Oh Yeah!
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Five For Howling
by Travis Hair on Jun 16, 2009 2:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said five for howling
Its nice to finally find a place with some common sense on the issue. I’m a Minnesota Wild fan who also follows the Coyotes (My Dad is from Arizona and still lives in the Phoenix area) and I’m glad to see they will still be playing there. Chances are I’ll get to see the Wild play in phx before i can ever get tickets to see them in minnesota.
by jerem77 on Jun 16, 2009 9:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
the biggest problem of the long list...
I still see the biggest problem for this franchise is not that it is “Phoenix” (desert) based. It is where it is in the greater Phoenix area, Glendale. I am a hockey fan (mostly a Kings fan) and I just moved here last year. I only got to two games last season because of the distance to the arena. There is no way on God’s Green Earth that a family can travel all the way from the south east valley on a weeknight to go see a game. In fact, the arena is west of probably 90-95% of the PHX population. If they were in the arena downtown or someplace in Tempe/Scottsdale the franchise would be significantly more viable. Yes, I am somewhat biased about the location because of where I live. But, a happy medium would have been the smart thing to do.
by michael e on Jun 17, 2009 12:47 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
duuuuuuuuuude...get a grip...
i was an original kings fan since expansion, lived in the san fernando valley, and traveled all the way to the fabulous forum in inglewood to go to games…can you say “rush hour on the southbound 405”…sigalerts…sepulveda pass…405/10 interchange in santa monica….lax traffic…so what??? i was goin’ to see HOCKEY!!!!!! I live now at the 60 and val vista in mesa, 40 miles one way…missed 8 games (including preseason) in 4 years…so unless you’re out in queen creek, i got no sympathy for ya….and you’re right, the scottsdale location would have been better for me and a lot of other fans, and would have made my life a lot easier, but Ellman screwed the pooch there and pissed off the scottsdale city fathers….a downtown arena west of BOB and amwest would have been ok…yeah, glendale isn’t the back side of nowhere…but you can see it from the Job….lol…but hockey fans are tough….suck it up, rub a little ice on it, grow a pair, put on your big boy panties and deal…besides, to a socal guy the freeways and traffic here gotta be a breeze, compared to the 210, pomona, 605 and the four level downtown….
who will rid me of this damn priest?
by goldenbear64 on Jun 17, 2009 4:26 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Gilbert, not quite as bad as Queen Creek. I get you with the traffic not being as bad here as LA. (thank god) But, it is obviously not just me that feels this way about the location. If I were the only one, they would have at least 14k a night, even with a bad team. Heck the Kings haven’t made the playoffs in, what, 6 years? They sell out at times and have a pretty darn good croud most nights. I do agree that keeping hockey here is something that I would personally like. I guess if I were into the yotes as much as I am the Kings, I probably would make the trek more often. When I lived in Orange County, I would drive right by the Pond on my way to Staples or the Forum.
by michael e on Jun 18, 2009 7:21 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
if you are a real hockey fan
time and distance mean nothing..see galenyote’s comment below…if a little time or distance is too much for the wusses to handle, well, we gotta move on..but anything less than 2 hours or a hundred miles is doable…ya just gotta wanna…“want to” is one of the great driving forces of the universe…
who will rid me of this damn priest?
by goldenbear64 on Jun 19, 2009 11:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure hope you're right.
Come on now, everyone LOVES to say “I told you so.”
And it’s great to pronounce “Coyotes staying in Phoenix.”.
Sure hope you’re right. Unfortunately been around too long to be so sure, so fast.
by PBJ on Jun 18, 2009 1:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Stop complaining about the drive
Try commuting from Tucson and working till 7pm and on Saturdays to boot.. and I made it to 4 games (would have been more but there are not that many Sunday games), and the Coyotes Rally, and will be buying a 10 game pack next year. I am tired of people complaining about the drive. Try driving for 2 hours from Tucson to Phoenix to watch a game and then you can complain about the location.
by GalenYote on Jun 19, 2009 10:31 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
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