Coyotes File for Bankruptcy (Maybe?) - Coyotes Fan Call to Arms

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 2:23 AM MST Comment 171 comments

It was a rough afternoon and evening for the Coyote fans here in the Valley of the Sun. The day started out so well too. Bettman was saying that he'd do what he needed to to help fix the Coyotes and that the NHL would be there to fix the team and get it running right and HERE. Just like the league had done so many times before with other teams. Then there were reports that the Commissioner was in town talking with Jerry Reinsdorf about buying the team since he put a chunk of change into getting the White Sox to move into nearby Camelback Ranch from Tucson for Spring Training. It looked like a positive day as far as all things on the Coyotes front were concerned. Then late in the afternoon the other show dropped and the lives of Coyotes fans were torn asunder with one fell swoop...

Dewey Ranch Hockey, LLC and its affiliates Arena Management Group, LLC, Coyotes Holdings, LLC and Coyotes Hockey, LLC (collectively “Coyotes”), owner of the National Hockey League (NHL) team the Phoenix Coyotes filed for Chapter 11 reorganization to implement a court-approved sale of the team under the federal bankruptcy code. The filing included a proposed sale of the franchise to PSE Sports & Entertainment, LP, a Delaware limited partnership (“PSE”), which would move the franchise to southern Ontario, Canada.

from Business Wire

Cue everyone going absolutely crazy. The fans here were absolutely stunned. Writers and some hockey fans north of the border all squealed in delight, as they saw their long awaited dream of the failure of hockey in the desert. They the team was moving back to Canada to top it off? How could it get any better? Jim BallSilly (Or however you spell his name) would finally get his Southern Ontario hockey team. And best of all it would be one less Sunbelt team. (Thank goodness huh?) But wait, there were to be more than a few wrinkles discovered as things shook out over the course of the evening. As soon as the NHL found out, that's right they didn't know, they released a terse, but telling press release:

"We have just become aware of today's Bankruptcy Court filing purportedly made on behalf of the Phoenix Coyotes. We are investigating the circumstances surrounding the petition, including the propriety of its filing. We have removed Jerry Moyes from all positions of authority to act for or on behalf of the Club. The League will appear and proceed before the Bankruptcy Court in the best interests of all of the Club's constituencies, including its fans in Arizona and the League's 29 other Member Clubs."

-Bill Daly - Deputy NHL Commissioner

It turns out that the league knew absolutely NOTHING about the offer. They were still dealing with the tabled offers they already had and trying to get the best deal they could. Moyes may have given BallSilly the loophole he had been looking for to finally get his grubby paws on a hockey team with, or without league approval. But some of the language in the release is what Coyote fans can hang on to for at least the next few days. While many writers see this as a done deal, the league apparently doesn't. They operantly don't even thing the filing of the papers is legitimate. If the offer can't be accepted then does the bankruptcy still go through? Who knows. Especially with all the limitations put on any competing offers to come in bankruptcy the stipulations that were put in may not even be enforceable by the courts. That's if they consider the offer at all now that the league is getting involved. Add to that the fact that Glendale would rather have an occupied building rather than an empty one, (Yes, even with concessions in their deal it's better) and BallSilly and Moyes are going to have one big fight to get this one through. Add to that the league taking Moyes out of the picture and the surprise almost the entire Coyotes staff. (Can't call all of them you know...) And this is just a massive stab in the back by Moyes. I don't think anyone saw this coming. Sure we figured that if a new owner could be found in the near future our guys could be leaving. But this soon? And in such an underhanded manner? I don't think so. But this is just the beginning...

If those to stooges think they can go behind everyone's back then hopefully someone gives them a smackdown. Just because BallSilly gets a concession from the current owner to move the team does not mean that he gets to move wherever he pleases. The Leafs and Sabres would have something to say if he moves to close to either area. The Court could say that basing the offer on such a move may not be enforceable (as mentioned earlier). The Board of Governors would still have to approve big parts of the deal bankruptcy or no as BallSilly doesn't have many friends there. Sure, they may be looking to get a few bucks, but at what cost? They don't want Jim in the same room as they are right now. Sure there are lots of "Ifs" and "but"s floating around in this whole thing, but don't count us out yet.

So What do we do now? We show our support for our team in any possible way we can:

Post here! - Come by this blog and post a FanPost or FanShot about how you feel about hockey, and the Coyotes. We become a harder target when others know we're out there. Or just drop in some comments if you don't have a lot to say. But say something! Anything! Let the world know we're here.

Heck, Start your own blog! - Yeah, they're saying that this could be resolved in 8 weeks, but you'd have a lot to talk about for those weeks wouldn't you?

Wear your Coyotes gear around town - We've got naysayers in our own city. Show your pride in our NHL team and make sure people know you're not just a hockey fan, but a COYOTE fan.

Get Involved! - Over the next few days you'll start seeing websites to counter some of the ones already in motion in Canada. Stop by and join them. I'm also in talks with people that want to start rallies, protests, or whatever you want to call it to show that we want this team here. If nothing else we can get more attention payed to this issue and that there are real, knowledgeable fans here in the Valley. We're not all transplants, or people that go when our "A team" is in town. We're always here.

Defend Yourself! - There are times to stand on the sidelines and wait for an opportunity for reasoned, rational debate. Quite frankly, we don't have the time for that. Pick up your keyboard, your telephone, you telegraph, whatever and fight back! Tell people that we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore! Call the Coyotes' front office. See if there's anyone there that will talk. They talk to me and I'm just a small time blogger. Call the paper, call the radio shows. Don't let the bashers be the only voice.

Take time and breathe - This isn't easy. That's why I didn't respond until I could pull myself together. This is a trying time to be a Coyotes fan. A great many of the fans here are of the Uberdedicated variety. You'll do everything and be everywhere. But take a break. Turn off the playoffs. Get away from the news and take a break every now and then. You can only take so much punishment at once. Fight hard, but know when to take a rest.

I don't know what else to say tonight. Get ready for the onslaught of articles from the East Coast morning papers and our Canadian friends. Don't forget that nothing is final yet. No matter what we fight on until the team starts playing, or at least until June 30. Good Luck and Godspeed. Most of All, GO YOTES!

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Comments

I’m pulling for you guys. I know having your team yanked out from under you sucks from first hand experience (Norm Green Still Sucks). Not all of us “traditional market” fans hate on the south.

Hopefully at worst, the league can work out a “Cleveland Browns” type deal where JB basically gets an expansion team for wiping out your debt, and the “new” Coyotes get a fresh start. Of course, that means rebuilding… again.

There's no use being pessimistic, it won't work anyway.

by Mike in MN on May 6, 2009 5:09 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

As a Leafs fan living in the Toronto Area

I wouldn’t have cared what happened to the Yotes 6 months ago, but OdinMercer turned me around and have since convinced me otherwise.

I wish you folks the best of luck in keeping your team there, although I think you will have the commissioner on your side.

I think Balsillie is the least of your worries as he alienated the league and owners long ago, I’m confident that his offer would only be considered as an absolutely last-ditch nowhere-else-to-go measure.

Good luck and GO YOTES GO!

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 5:12 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for coming by Winkle! I appereciate the Support! Even though Karina is against us…

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 6:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

There is a reason (more than one however) as to why I call her Devil-Woman.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 6:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

hey

I have sympathy, but if the team lost $45 mill this year, despite being about 10X more talented than the Leafs, maybe people who are tired of waiting for the Leafs to rebuild would happily support the excellent job the Yotes have done so far…. not that I would, but the Leafs did have to pay $10 mill into revenue sharing this year and while that’s a drop in the bucket to them, wouldn’t it be better to have another team paying into revenue sharing rather than one taking from it?
I feel for yotes fans, but I don’t enjoy the fact that my team has to prop up so many other franchises….

by Karina on May 6, 2009 9:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But, we’ve been propping up franchises for ages, including Canadian ones (some that ended up moving, and some that didn’t) and we don’t actually know for sure that the relocated team would be a license to print money. People say it would, but then again, based on that logic, you’d figure that all the other Canadian teams would be rolling in dough. Rabid fanbase doesn’t always translate to tonnes of money.

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 9:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

it's true

I’m skeptical of the whole thing this morning, the restriction to move specifically to SOW may be a bit much, but I can at least understand where Balsille’s coming from.
Bettman’s insistence that the Yotes can work in Phoenix needs some proof because all I’ve ever heard are these negative numbers – although those have come through the Canadian media, so perhaps they are exaggerated.

Rabid fan bases don’t always translate to tonnes of money – I’d say that Odin and his friends here are pretty rabid themselves. It’s being able to attract enough people that the team will make money, along with having the team run well – ie. Nashville did fairly well under the new ownership this year with their marketing initiatives that Leopold never tried when he was crying about losing money. Vancouver’s become a huge player in the NHL the past few years because they are run and marketed well – the fanbase here is pretty large, but it’s only in the past few years that the team has really become a brand and started making money hand over fist, after many years of barely keeping afloat.
I dunno… it’s all speculation and we’ll see, but it really does suck to have your team pulled out from under you.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 9:57 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. What I’d like to see ideally is an owner in Phoenix that really puts work into it, and doesn’t just assume that plonking a team down will result in lots of profit right away. I think that’s what these fans deserve, someone who will do what has been done in other markets to get them to come out and have that eventually translate into profit. Losing a team sucks, and becoming a fan of a team means an emotional commitment, and if your owner is always acting like your team could leave, there is no incentive to become attached, because it will likely end in heartache. I would prefer them to give a real, honest to goodness shot with competent ownership before yanking it away. Because again, if they move it, it’ll be a franchise that has moved twice, and that’s something to think about if I’m considering buying tickets in the new location. It has happened twice before, why wouldn’t it happen again?

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 10:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

those are good points. And maybe Bettman’s right and the franchise could work in Phoenix with proper marketing and commercial support. I just wish I felt enough confidence in there being an owner out there who would like to and is capable of doing that. If not, and any other possible owner is only interested in moving the team – whether to Vegas or Kansas City or elsewhere in the USA – then I’d rather see Balsille get it and move it to SOW, since he has already shown the marketing incentive that is required.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Half

the teams in the league are money-losers

Even Boston lost 0.7 mil last year

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 11:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

huge diff

between 0.7 mill and 45 mill….
Most teams need to make the playoffs to make money. The teams that don’t – Leafs, Canucks – they make the money through other means. The Leafs don’t need to do any work, but the Canucks really are a model franchise in how to market yourselves to become profitable. They certainly aren’t the 4th most profitable franchise in the NHL due to the team winning the cup so much or having a history of success. That is what these other franchises need to do, and the owners need to get on it, stat.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

there is a huge difference but my point was that even an original six team located in an established market can still loose money

Also that 0.7 mil was in operating losses

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

operating losses? Please explain.
Also, Jacobs in Boston is about the worst owner in the NHL since Bill Wirtz died. Chicago shows how important ownership is to a franchise’s profitability.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 11:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry, operating income which Forbes states “Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.”

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 11:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

ok

got it. Still. I maintain that Boston’s losses were due to poor ownership rather than any product on the ice. Jacobs is a tightwad, and I’m sure Cornelius could give you a good write-up on all the horrible things he’s done in Boston and that it’s a miracle the team is doing so well despite him.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I was mostly pointing out that there are huge combination of factors at play as to why a team is making/losing money

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 11:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

which is why I’m now open to the possibility that the current owner of the Yotes hasn’t marketed the team appropriately, hence contributing to the $45 mill loss, and that a new owner could perhaps make a go of it in Phoenix.

by Karina on May 6, 2009 11:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

With Boston, though, the same guy owns the team, the arena, and the concessions.

I don’t think they’re all losing money. He pays rent to himself and therefore can basically make or lose however much he wants.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure!

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on May 6, 2009 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I have always liked the Desert Dogs and LOVE their jerseys. I think they have a good core of young players and with Phx being a good media market a winning team could do wonders out there. That being said, they have obvious financial issues and now and ugly court fight about the very future of the team. As much sense as it is to have a team in Ontario, it sucks if its your team being moved. I hope for the best for the fans out there in Phx and echoing Mike sentiments, if there is a move, perhaps you will still retain a Cleveland Browns type team. Go Yotes!

The population of Pominville keeps rising!

by Blackcapricorn on May 6, 2009 6:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

It’ll suck to see another young team move somewhere else to have success.

Definitely do not give up the fight. This thing is far from over. There are still a tonne of unanswered questions that should give you guys hope.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 6:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks PPP. good to know (most) of you leaf fans are behind us, or next to us. Well somewhere around us.

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 6:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

singing

WE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT! NO! WE AIN’T GONNA TAKE IT! WE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMOOOOOORE.

by C13TheDiva on May 6, 2009 6:42 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Good luck you guys...

I know that when I’ve been to Phoenix to take in a Sharks game, I’ve always caught a ton of flak for wearing my gear. You guys love your team, and deserve to keep it.

Your dedicated fans are awesome… here’s to more White Outs in Phoenix next time the playoffs visit your town.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on May 6, 2009 7:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Should have known that in the year where the team of my childhood may finally have turned the corner and become a legit Cup contender, the team in the town in which I reside becomes a team in limbo.

I have lived here in PHX area for almost 20 years. I remember life before the Yotes. It sucked, plain and simple. I remember going to NHL Desert series games and thinking, this is nice and all but its not real NHL hockey. I remember my friends and I picking out our season ticket seats in AWA. The excitement of the Whiteouts. Most importantly, I met my wife due to a Yotes playoff game.

What I always find most amusing when I here from others is how this isn’t a “traditional hockey market”. Interesting to me because this place is chock full of people transplanted from those supposedly “traditional” markets. Tons of folks here from the Midwest , Canada, and Eastern cities. The Yotes have done a poor job of selling them on this franchise.

This franchise’s problems aren’t about that it is located in the PHX area. This franchises problems deal with a number of events that have transpired over the years.

1. Ownership issues – From the absentee original, to the real estate guy, to Mr. Transportation there has never been a true vision on how to build this franchise. Ellman allowing Gretzky free reign and the results may have done more to harm this franchise than anything else.

2. Player personnel – This area more than any other has hurt the franchise. Until very recently the team’s drafts were abysmal. I mean not just bad, but terrible. Besides Danny Briere name me one impact NHL player this franchise has drafted since its time here.

3. Arena location – I still question whether or not they would have wound up in Glendale had Ellman not been the owner. His focus on the real estate end of things appears to have been the guiding force. The arena location is not as big a problem as some suggest, but it is an issue, especially for weekday games for those who live/work in the East Valley.

4. The team’s record after the move – Combined with the lockout, this issue is really what killed things. Like anywhere else prolonged losing is going to hurt any franchise. Even more so a team that due to its inability to do anything ever in the postseason had never captured the general public’s enthusiasm. My season ticket group, that I was no longer a major part of due to finances, decided finally that they were done. I couldn’t blame them. The product on the ice had become terrible. I myself had gotten sick and tired of driving across town to spend 2-3 hours paying to watch bad hockey. At one point the record of the games that I had seen since the new arena had opened was 0-10-1. The record itself was bad enough, but it was the play that was truly most bothersome. The fact is in any city if a team had the record the Yotes have had since moving to Glendale they’d have a ton of empty seats in their building. Winning brings people in plain and simple.

5. Marketing – I don’t even know where to begin. As lame as attempts have been in the past, the last 2 years their marketing campaign has been wretched. The “Pierre” puppet thing is so dumb its indescribable. And this is coming from a hockey fan. One can only imagine what casual and/or non-hockey fans think.

To the present – The team after of years of floundering under Gretzky’s group finally fired Barnett and hired a real GM. I think Don Maloney has done a good job in his 2 years here. The team finally seems to have a plan and he made some smart moves at the trade deadline this year. The future finally appears bright on the ice. They did a bunch of things with ticket prices which I think would be positively received if they had been marketed better.

While the arena location is an issue, the arena itself is great. It is the one thing Gretzky and his group did right. It is made for hockey and it shows. There isn’t a bad seat in the house. The sound is 20 times better than it was at US Airways and the little touches such as being able to stand on the concourse, eat, and still watch the game are great. The parking is easy to get in and out of. The staff are excellent. Best arena staff I’ve ever seen and I’ve been to a fair share of arenas and ballparks over the years.

Enough of my ranting, time to fire off some e-mails/letters and work on keeping the Yotes in town.

by CP2Devil on May 6, 2009 7:30 AM MST reply actions 8 recs

Phoenix may not be a traditional market in the sense that it doesn’t have 125 years of hockey played in the dead of winter, but there’s been a 40-year history of minor-pro (WHL, AHL, IHL, WCHL, ECHL, CHL) franchises running through Phoenix over the years, capped by the WHA’s Roadrunners in the mid-70s. There’s hockey history there, if you look for it.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on May 6, 2009 9:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, rec'd for thoroughness.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on May 6, 2009 9:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Doogie2k. Nice mention of the hockey history here, especially the Roadrunners.

I actually wish I would have edited it before posting. Need to work on my language in the post. Also, would have added a couple of other things history wise that would have shed a bit more light.

by CP2Devil on May 6, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You should make it a fanpost so it doesn’t get lost in all of the comments. Then you can expand it too.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Why...

…should fans who were mad when Winnipeg left be happy that the team is moving to Toronto? I don’t get this logic at all.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on May 6, 2009 7:42 AM MST reply actions 2 recs

Rec’d.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure!

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on May 6, 2009 9:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Bin-fucking-go

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I made a blog about this situation

http://coyotesmuststayinphoenix.blogspot.com/

Let’s show the NHL that we are here and we love and care about this team! Hopefully a possible loss of the franchise will make the bonds between the team and it’s fans stronger.

Let’s Go Coyotes!

My body might be in Greece, but my mind and my heart is in Arizona. When the heck will I visit the Desert?

by Giannaros on May 6, 2009 7:49 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

the NHL needs to be convinced

the main issue is how this the league, the courts and Baisillie settle this between the three of them

worst case scenario is that it gets ugly and Bettman resorts to scuttling (read: folding) the team just to prevent Baisillie from getting his hands on it if the courts forces the league to either accept Baisillie’s offer or fold it

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 8:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope that this situation gets sorted out soon and the season begins with the ’Yotes in Phoenix, where they belong. I know there are a lot of issues and obstacles to hurdle before the situation is resolved, I just hope they do the right thing, find a local owner and save the team. Good Luck and stay strong, Coyotes fans!!

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 8:02 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Buffalo Supports You!!!

We are 100% behind you guys!!! The Team has to stay in Phoenix. If the Team moves to Southern Ontario I think the Sabres are in big trouble. While Buffalo makes up for a big portion of the attendance for games we do get a lot of Candians who cant get tickets to Leafs games. Its a lot like the Spread of communism. If you fail to keep the team and it moves near us. We might Lose ours sometime down the Road. What can I say, it lines up with my Motto…Expect the Worst and hope for the Best. lol. Yotes 4 LIFE!!!

by Funks on May 6, 2009 8:11 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, you have our full support of this. He just beat me to the punch on saying it.

Die By The Blade - An SB nation destination for Sabres fans everywhere

by Zachary Zielonka on May 6, 2009 8:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Luck 'Yotes

Sharks fans, (well, some of us), are behind you too! Even if you always make fools of us in the regular season. ;)

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com

by CTGray on May 6, 2009 8:30 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Stay in Phoenix...

Just give us Doan.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on May 6, 2009 8:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!

Many thanks to the hockey fans out there for your support. If we go down it will not be because we were staning still! PHOENIX COYOTES FOREVER!

by AZYotee on May 6, 2009 8:42 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Make your voice heard

City of Glendale City Hall (623) 930-2000
Swift Transportation (602) 269-9700
NHL (212) 789-2000

by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo on May 6, 2009 8:51 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Great Idea

The more people can give vocal support the better. Call them every day if you have to.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Odin...

you know how I much I covet these Yotes of yours.

This is a great team, and lots of fun to watch. I don’t know enough about the business end of the NHL to say one way or the other how I think things will shake down. I just hope it all works out for the best.

As commenter CP2 has kindly outlined for us (great comment BTW, recd) there’s much more to the issue than meets the eye.

I recall an online petition for the Coyotes being available for signing. Is that link readily available here? If the owners (or lack there of at the moment) are not going to do much to get the word out, a grass roots campaign started by the fans there in Phoenix is the next best thing.

Good luck, and as all you yote’s fans can tell, the true hockey fans are supporting you 100%!

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 8:58 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

delete comments

why do my comments keep getting deleted. I am just voicing my opinion and that is that there is no support for this team. Time to move on.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 8:59 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thin skin.

by Jets Forever on May 6, 2009 9:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 9:16 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

You’ll find that most sites don’t allow trolls.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Winnipeg Jets

This will offend many of you, but I was a Winnipeg Jets fan long before you took the team from us.

I have been a fan of this team long before most of you had even heard of it.

So I have the right to want MY team to return to Canada.

You will be upset about this for sure, but like I said before, I was a fan of the Jets way before any of you were.

It’s unfortunate you didn’t get an expansion team instead, then nobody would have the right to take them away.

You took our team away. Now we’re taking it back, albeit, to a different province.

Sorry.

by Jets Forever on May 6, 2009 9:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

How are you excited by this? “Take the team back?” No, Ontario is taking this team. Manitoba and Winnipeg are not. How is that better? Hey, Winnipeg… like all good western Canadians, you’re supposed to hate Toronto and southern Ontario! What’s wrong with you on this one? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on May 6, 2009 9:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t live in Winnipeg. I live in Southern Ontario.

I still have a Jets toque.

Yes, I know Kitchener isn’t Winnipeg, but I want MY team back in MY country.

Now you know how we felt when you took the team.

But this is different: we’re not taking your team, we’re taking it BACK as it was OURS FIRST.

If you were an expansion team, I’d hope it would stay in Phoenix, but this team should have never gone there in the first place.

by Jets Forever on May 6, 2009 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

if it was YOUR team, it would still be YOUR team, even when YOUR team moved from YOUR country.

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You do realize you’re not taking jack shit, right? The Jets aren’t coming back. They never will. Try being sympathetic instead of antagonistic.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on May 6, 2009 9:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s the problem, they can’t be sympathetic…they forgot how it felt to lose the jets, because back when it mattered they let that team die. The struggles of the coyotes is not karma for the city of Winnipeg losing the Jets, its on the failure of the parties involved in Phoenix. They screwed up, and now the fans take the brunt of it. And yes, there are fans, and kind that care and don’t just let their team go. Yotes in Phoenix for 2009 & beyond!!!

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 9:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

just because your city couldnt support an NHL franchise, doesnt mean that you should be cheering for the destruction of the team they became.
Phoenix itself has some damned good hockey fans as this site will attest to.
I want more canadian teams as much as the next guy, but i refuse to take pleasure in the misery of true hockey fans

stop being a trolling douchbag

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Destruction would be staying in PHX.

Why should Moyes who is already short $100 mil because you cant fill the arena keep writing blank cheques to keep a failing business afloat ?

Moving to Kitchener would save the franchise.

Again, I certainly look like a jerk here, but I have been a fan of this team since way before any of you were.

And the emotions of when Winnipeg moved are coming back for me.

Our (original Jets fans) claims supersede Phoenix claims, as we were fans first. You’re just bandwaggoners because the team moved to your city.

by Jets Forever on May 6, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

wow, thats pretty delisional
so your saying every new fan of a team is a bandwagoner just because there was people that were fans before them?
get over yourself,

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 9:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You lost the team for a lack of support long ago. And Winnipeg is not getting a team, go enjoy the moose and be happy that the AHL took mercy on you.

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 9:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

every time you comment...

you prove how stupid you are…

move along gang, nothing to see here.

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 9:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Our (original Jets fans) claims supersede Phoenix claims, as we were fans first. You’re just bandwaggoners because the team moved to your city.

And you suffered this massive head trauma when?

They were your team. Then they moved. Now people in Pheonix feel the same way you did about them, so why do they deserve to lose them simply because you were there first? They didn’t force the team to leave Winnipeg, but they did. And now they love them. I’m frankly appalled that you could take such joy in someone else possibly losing the team they love. I would have thought you’d be able to sympathize and understand where they are coming from. I’m lucky to have never had to deal with my team moving away, but I feel bad for anyone who does. I felt for Jets fans, and I feel for Coyotes fans. And them moving from Pheonix? Doesn’t bring them back to you. And you can keep saying “I’ve been a fan of this team since way before any of you were” and call them bandwaggoners, but they are still allowed to have an opinion.

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Note to Jets Forever

Average attendance per game for the Jets during their 7 years in the NHL = 12,878

Average attendance per game for the Yotes in their 11 years so far in NHL = 14,820

Food for thought

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 9:58 AM MST up reply actions 7 recs

Rec'd

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure!

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on May 6, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

your logic is like krypnonite to their desire and will be thusly ignored

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But what about the Queen?

The portrait of the Queen must count for something.

(God I loved seeing that during Jets games.)

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on May 6, 2009 10:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

She was at the Gardens too. The Gardens attendance must be through the roof.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 10:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to argue better fans or not but

But when I read this point yesterday I thought I should point out that Winnipeg is made up of 650,000 people (around 1 million total for Manitoba) whereas Phoenix has according to Wikipedia 1,552,259 residents, and is the anchor of the Phoenix Metropolitan Area, the 12th largest metro area by population in the United States with 4,281,899 residents.

That being said as a Winnipeger who lives in Michigan, I couldn’t disagree with Jets Fan more. I’m also realisitc enough to know that this move won’t see Winnipeg get a team so why should I get excited to have another team in Southern Ontario?

I just think the discourse needs to be kept civil. No need to rag on Winnipeg (not suggesting that its being done) or Phoenix. As most Pegger’s should be aware of we were once in your shoes and it was a position we didn’t appreciate.

For more hockey news; www.illegalcurve.com

by WpgMikos on May 7, 2009 4:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no one has a “right” to do anything.

read through this site and get a better grasp on the real world here.

as a hockey fan, I want to see every team succeed. As a Leafs fan (albeit, one in California), I could give a shit about another team in Southern Ontario.

Your arguments are immature, not based in reality, and have no bearing here. This is a site for Coyotes fans. GTFO.

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 9:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Jets Fornever,

Whatever your claimed Jets emotions, you do realize Phoenix hockey fans did not “take your team,” right?

You do realize that by your definition, you were likewise a bandwagoner whenever it was you decided to root for the Jets, right?

You do realize that fans, no matter where they’re located, are always just the collateral damage in this rich man’s game, right?

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on May 6, 2009 9:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent points Lighthouse.

Looks I have nothing against Winnipeg and Jets fans. I certainly understand their emotions in this and if they feel this is somehow karma or whatever that is their right. I have no problem with folks in Southern Ontario saying they want a team. It’s when they pull the whole its not a traditional hockey market thing I get irritated. Bottom line. These seem to be the same folks who said the Caps should be moved a few years back. Hmm, haven’t heard that refrain lately. :-) The Stars have been successful over the years in Dallas. I believe that city counts as “nontraditional” supposedly right? No calls lately for the Ducks to move, eh? It’s about having a good organization and winning folks.

My only issue with Jets Fornever is this illogical bandwagon thing he brought up. So, I guess that means I’m a bandwagon fan since I pull for the Baltimore Orioles as they were once the St. Louis Browns. And with the same logic every Yankees fan is a bandwagon fan because they were originally… the Baltimore Orioles.

by CP2Devil on May 6, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry clown

They are NOT your team, period. Deal with it.

"If you'd need to know, you'd know. but they decided that you don't need to know,so you don't. So stop thinking about what you don't know because you don't need to know what you think you need to know about!"

by unnamedDBacksfan on May 6, 2009 9:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You have

as much claim to the Yotes as Whalers fans have on the Canes

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 9:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn straight

That’s the perfect way to put it, Winkle. Nicely done.

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 9:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope things solve out for you guys. bettman should for once do what he promised he would

"miss u, CR baby...u want 2 get back 2gether?"

by sleza on May 6, 2009 9:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Sharks fan here, got your guys' back on this

Wish you luck through all this. As a fan of the MLS’s SJ Earthquakes, who went through their own ownership issues and eventually had to move because of them, I know how you feel.

Don’t give up, especially in the face of the select number of Canadian fans with a inflated sense of entitlement to a hockey team.

I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"

by Nael M. on May 6, 2009 9:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hang in there, 'Yotes fans

Ugly stuff, and I’m feeling for you. No telling how this will play out in the end, but no fan deserves to go through this.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on May 6, 2009 10:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Couple of other things...

this article needs more Buzz Ups.

it needs more recs as well.

I’ve done both, but you yotes fans need to do the same.

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 10:09 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Reinsdorf to the rescue!

And now we can see why Moyes is the real enemy.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

Balsillie just wants a team badly. The NHL wants a team in Phoenix badly. Moyes needed a lot of money badly, and went behind the NHL’s backs when they were financing his franchise. Moyes is the problem. Not Phoenix, not the NHL, not Canada, and not Balsillie.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on May 6, 2009 10:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

would you rather see the team fold

There is a buyer for the Coyotes and is willing to keep the team alive. Otherwise the team will go the way of the dodo bird. There is about 6 teams in the south USA that are dying a slow painful and expensive death. There is no market for them, no demand for them, no fans for them, and no TV deal for them. When repeats of the 1987 NCAA tournament outdraw the NHL on TV in the US, time to close up shop.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 10:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Name those six teams

I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"

by Nael M. on May 6, 2009 10:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed...

who are these 6 teams?

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 10:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

thats like asking would you rather be shot in the face or the leg? Sure getting shot in the leg probably wont kill you but it isnt exactly a desired option

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 10:21 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Nashville, Florida, Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus

All are in trouble. Through in the NY Islanders trying to bolt, although to KC.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 10:24 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

They are having some trouble in those places, but again, would you have advocated for teams leaving Edmonton, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary when they were having trouble? If you can honestly say you were, then fine, go ahead and call for the removal of these teams, but if you can’t (as I suspect is the case) then don’t call for it here.

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Bingo

Who remembers the Canadian Assistance Plan? If not for that it’s possible that there would only be two teams in Canada right now.

What those teams need are owners dedicated to building the grassroots and a league willing to work with them over at least a generation. Dallas’ success has been their ability to build hockey up throughout the area. Same with the Californian teams.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Colombus is a young franchise, but it’s hardly in the south…

http://softeuropean.wordpress.com

by Grrrreg on May 6, 2009 10:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

He could have said Carolina. Though their playoff atmosphere is unbelievable. If they could translate that through the season that would be an incredible franchise.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 10:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I won’t discuss the Coyotes here for obvious reasons. But all of the teams you lsited are either healthy, or are stuggling for reasons other than fan support.

- Columbus has done consistently well despite the team not making it to the dance until this season, and their ownership is pretty determined to stay in the city at all costs. I’d hardly call that “struggling”. Also, as Grrreg points out, they’re hardly a southern market – you need to study your geography better.
- Nashville’s new ownership finally brought in the corporate support the team desperately needed, and have been market the team in ways Craig Leipold never bothered to look at. Maybe a year ago you could say they were doomed, but with their already solid fan support being bolstered by corporate support, I’d say they’re going to stick around for the long run.
- Tampa’s attendance is fine, but most of their troubles can be traced to their idiot ownership, not uncaring fans.
- Florida is struggling for fan support, but with the way the team has performed and how little their ownership has given a damn, I can’t blame the fans for not showing up. Again, another shitty owner driving away fans.
- Atlanta is a pretty poor market for pro sports unless they’re really successful, but the Thrashers’ owners are also involved in a legal struggle that has brought down the franchise as well.

So, of the 5 non-Phoenix markets you bring up, 2 of them are actually doing well and 3 of them are struggling not because of lack of interest and fan support, but because of shitty or in-limbo ownerships (which are the cause of the lack of support). The assertion that these teams should be yanked because of lack of support or interest in these cases are tenuous at best.

I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"

by Nael M. on May 6, 2009 10:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Columbus – I know they aren’t in the “South”, but “Central”. This year was an anomaly, First winning season in 8 years. New ownership will be needed in two years.

Nashville – I don’t think so. Another two more losing seasons and attendance will be back to the 13-14 mark.

Tampa – joke of the league. Got caught trying to sell Vincent Lecavalier for cash. Desperate team. Value of the team plummets daily.

Florida – couldn’t even give away free tickets, had to pay people with Beer and Nachos to take the tickets in order to qualify for the league equalization payments.

Atlanta – already lost a team (Flames), will lose another one. Once they dump Kovalchuk, there won’t be 10k in the stands.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not even going to dignify your “analysis” of the situation in those markets with a response.

But I do want to know if you are going to answer my question. Did you support Canadian teams moving when they were having trouble? Yes or no?

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If it warrants moving them, sure, they have done it before. But there is only 6 left, and if Bettman moved them all like he would like, there would be 0 TV coverage anywhere. No CBC, no TSN, no ESPN8 or whatever it is. The Nordiques and Jets would still be operating the owners back then had the stones to push for the salary cap like they have now. Guaranteed. These teams can’t even operate while being near the floor of the cap. Time to pull the plug, cut the dead weight and move to a stronger league.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That wasn’t my question. I don’t care what Bettman wants, and I’m not talking about now. I asked you what you thought a few years ago when the large majority of Canadian teams (not including the Jets and the Nordiques) where going through a lot of trouble economically, and the league supported them. Were you in favour of Edmonton (just as an example) leaving for another location?

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

There

aren’t really any cities outside of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto and Montreal who can economically sustain a competitive NHL team

Ottawa barely makes any profit compared to the 5 aforementioned franchises

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 11:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn’t in favor of it, but when someone offers huge $ for the jets, and nobody could match it, then so be it. Now the same thing is happening but on the other foot. Nobody is going to match the $212M for the coyotes. Period. It is all about whether Bettman wants egg on his face for the failure of the relocation.

Edmonton has an owner who cares about the team. There wasn’t anyone that actually had an offer for the oilers.

by VaderNation on May 6, 2009 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d much rather they take a team out of Atlanta than Phoenix. Atlanta is the worst sporting city on the continent.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not all Jet fans are evil I promise

I am from winnipeg originally and I will admit….it sucked when our team was whisked out of town by “shady back room dealings”. We (the real fans) loved our Jets and will always have a special place in our heart for them (nothing beats memories of Anders Ulf and Bobby or Kent the “magicman” or even Dale (ducky) Hawerchuck or a young and gung-ho Temmu Selanne lighting the lamp in the old barn) So when the Jets moved it broke the true fans hearts, as well as Im sure a number of players in the organization who had come to appreciate if not (dare I say it) love our little riverside city.

And now sadly the same fate be-falls the Yotes, and Im sure the fans (the true fans) feel all the same things that we were feeling back in the “shifty backroom dealing days” and Im sure that there are players in the organization now who have come to love where they play and where they live and appreciate all the finery that Im sure the desert has to offer (I myself have never visited AZ but would enjoy it Im sure)

My point is this, no matter how I feel about “my team” versus “your team” I think that in this case we as fans need to look at this team as “our team” and hope that this isnt settled by lawyers judges and back room politics, without hearing the fans voices. I think that would be the greatest injustice done hear would be to move/not move a team without letting the true fans speak for it.

Am I embarrassed to be a Winnipegger who desperately wants a team back? no. Am I proud of what has gone on here with the Yotes and the apparent “sneak around the NHL rules to get a team back in Canada” situation? Nope.

I hope that this get resolved so that everyone (and Im sure thats hardly possible) will be happy with the outcome, but first and foremost lets remember that this franchise has been through the difficult transition once already. So I beg the NHL and fans everywhere to do what is right FOR THE TEAM.

If that means fixing the situation in AZ and making the Yotes a viable sports team there…then GO FOR IT! You will have my support 100%.

Would it be nice to dream that they could come back to Winnipeg and resume the “glory days of old”. It sure would, but financially and economically its just not feasible at this time.

I just dont want all the folks in AZ to think that we in Winnipeg all think this is still “our team” . It is in the fact that it is the franchise that moved from here to there, but that is where the connection ends.

I wish all of you fans in AZ the best of luck keeping your team where it is…dont make the same mistake that we Jet fans did, and take it for granted that they will stay, or you might get burned like we did by backroom deals that circumvented the passion for the team.

by Puckaholic on May 6, 2009 10:31 AM MST reply actions 10 recs

Well said

Thanks for bringing some perspective and rationality to this debate. And I hope that Phoenix fans take what you said to heart.

And rec’d.

"If rubbing frozen dirt in your crotch is wrong, hey, I don't wanna be right."

by Mabel on May 6, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea

Its nice to have some sensible Jets fans in here

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

proof they do exist, which is great to see

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

now if we could only find a sensible Sens fan….

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 10:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha! that’s like finding an unicorn or the Yeti

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

or a unicorn yeti!

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s a photoshop request, if I ever heard one

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 10:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent comment

I feel your pain and the pain of all Jets fans. It would be great if the NHL could keep everybody happy, but it cannot/won’t happen.

Recommended

My body might be in Greece, but my mind and my heart is in Arizona. When the heck will I visit the Desert?

by Giannaros on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think as hockey fans, we need to see a bigger picture.

I am a Canadian citizen, living in the US. I love hockey. I love it so much, I want everyone I know to love it. There is no “undeserving market” anywhere in the world. In fact, as a fan of this game, I would love to see a league of 100 teams. Because it means the game is growing, it’s entertaining, and people love it, no matter where they live.

Please don’t talk about diluting the talent pool, or any other such nonsense. More fans means more talent. More kids that get to see the games means more kids who grow up with visions of Gretzky, Lemieux (Ovie and yes, even Crosby) in their dreams.

More people need to see that growth of the game is NEVER a bad thing.

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

and...

also recd.

"Ninety percent of the game is half mental."
The Left Coast Lock

by blurr1974 on May 6, 2009 10:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Trust me I don’t think any of you folks are evil. Not even Jetsfornever. Just like any group of people anywhere folks are going to look at a situation differently depending on their own beliefs.

FYI – We haven’t forgotten the legacy of the franchise here. I still see Jets jerseys in the stands. We know where the Whiteouts started.

by CP2Devil on May 6, 2009 10:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Coyotes Fans

I am a neutral observer in what is going on. I have argued NHL expansion and relocation to the Sun Belt was largely a mistake, and I stand by that.

However, nobody deserves to have their team ripped from them. I know that Odin and the others in this community, and I’m sure many other Arizonans, are great hockey fans. This situation, like so many under Bettman, sucks all the way around. I’ve seen the process of a team moving away and it is heartwrenching and unfair. The worst part is the repeated assertion that your team has no fans and no one cares. It amps up your pain and anger while simultaneously denying you even feel it. This Ontarian knows that’s not true.

No fan deserves to lose their team. Except Sens fans. Hang in there, Yotes fans.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 10:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Love the subtle dig at the end there. I think that’s the perfect solution. Move the Sens to S.O. They’re not even a real team anyway.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 10:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That was

subtle?

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on May 6, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

personally i would have thrown in a SENS SUCK

maybe thats what he ment

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That's right

Rag all over my Sens for no good reason, while they bring home the World Championship trophy that Grabovski / Kaberle / Kubina / Toskala / Sundin et al. fail to capture year-in, year-out.

Maybe if Spezza and Heatley miss the playoffs every 14 years, you guys could send over Matt Stajan to dominate the tourney for us Canadians.

Normally, I’d be pissed, but since the atmosphere in here was getting a little too rainbows and lollipops for some people’s taste, us Sens fans will take that bullet.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Grabovski / Kaberle / Kubina / Toskala / Sundin et al

Wow, I didn’t realize those guys all represented the independent nation of Leafsylvania at the WC. You learn something new every day.

But congrats, I thought’d I’d seen every dumbass Sens argument there is, but you’ve cooked up a whole new one. The WC is of course all about how the stars of hockey bring glory to their NHL franchise. No wait, that’s the NHL playoffs. Don’t sweat, you guys won’t be back for a while.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah because we’re the franchise who’s working on the string of….5 years in a row now?

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Only a fan who counts Cups won in 1878 as part of a different franchise would count the lockout as a playoff miss.

Oh, and enjoy Heatley and Spezza. I’d LOVE if those two floaters and a declining Alfie were snarfing up my team’s cap room. That’d be great.

Here’s a number you can count. 4. (Battle of Ontario wins).

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Dont those 3 take up something like 20mil in cap space? Good job Bryan Murray.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Touche

Any chance you guys have any non Sens-flaming opinions?

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You came in here and started the battle. Sure GT made the initial remark, but you had to respond. You kinda brought this on yourself

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for my uber-offensive remark about Sens fans being willing to take the unnecessary digs

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, any true fan would have done what you did. The Leaf fans over at PPP keep it civil, we will insult the team.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll take that as a surrender, then.

Wendel Clark is God.
Luke Schenn is the Saviour. There you go.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope you guys get Luke’s lil brother.

Those two would kill it together.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Me too. OR Duchene.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Im with you GT. I’ve been hoping for Duchene to be drafted by the Leafs for a while now

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Rag all over my Sens for no good reason, while they bring home the World Championship trophy that Grabovski / Kaberle / Kubina / Toskala / Sundin et al. fail to capture year-in, year-out.

You’re shitting me? That comment was meant as a joke right?

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was funny, anyway.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Almost as funny as Ottawa’s season this year. We’re going up, you’re going down, and it’s beautiful to see.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The only one’s going down in Ottawa are Hillary Duff and Carrie Underwood

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t know Heatley and Spezza were Team Canada. Tell the rst of the boys to come back home, Canada has those 2.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

And St. Louis, but I’d hate to incur the wrath of the Bolts haters as well

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

But he is on the Lightning. You said the Sens would bring home the WHC trophy? So now the story changes.
Flip Flopping, like a Sens fan. Seriously, before the Sens were in Ottawa were you a Habs or Leaf fan?

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not OK for me to like the Bolts?

Is it alright with you if I support the Dogs?

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I never said that. However you did say this

Rag all over my Sens for no good reason, while they bring home the World Championship trophy

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Trust me if Team Canada is relying on the Sens they’ll end up choking at the end. Say how many years were you guys favoured to win the Cup? And how many did you win??

We haven’t won a Cup in a long time but I’d rather have a team that overaccomplishes and doesn’t win than a team that chokes and doesn’t win.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

OK OK

you guys have made your point.

Anyone know where a guy can go to discuss the Yotes, round here?

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have put subtle in quotes.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe Godd Till should have put Ontarian in quotes.

;-)

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m from Peterborough.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s the geographic midway point betwen Leafs Nations and the Sens Army base, for the Geographically challenged.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sens Army? That’s some joke right? Eh, how does it feel to have your own rink overtaken every time the Leafs are in town?

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, it’s the coolest thing.

No better visitors than the Leafs for atmosphere.

Cheers to ya’ll

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What kind of army likes it when fans of the other team takes over there rink?

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The Salvation Army, Peace Corps, etc.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh man, this keeps getting better and better. Now you are comparing them to the Peace Corps. I guess the Sens and Peace Corps are similar.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, the same Army who gets their building taken over every time the Leafs visit. Fearsome. The same army who reads their inspirational speeches off a piece of notepaper taped to the back of their cardboard shield.

“THIS…. IS…. KAAAAANNNAAAATAAAAA!!!!!!”

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure what you’re getting at, but I’ll assume it makes sense to some people

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/04/oh-sweet-god-make-it-stop.html

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Those 2 successive posts were DGB at his finest.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't want Yotes to move

I am starting to like that team. Good young talent, fast, talented. I don’t wanna see them in S.O, cuz I would then have to hate them by default.
Odin, just stop hating Ontario, k buddy? We are good people

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:05 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I only hated on them immediately. Not so much later. Just hating BallSilly.

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 11:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good man.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Could we stay on topic

If I wanted a flame war, I’d have gone to PPP

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yup, but instead you came here and decided to trash the Leafs. Too bad there’s too many of us. We’re everywhere! (ominous music plays).

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

In all fairness…. GT made the first dig. He chose to retaliate, which any fan would have. We swarmed him tho

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s all good.

Not all of us Sens fans hate the blue-and-white.

Some of us are actually old enough to have rooted for our local hockey team before 1991

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Props to you, for talking like an actual person and sticking to the team.

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I do have some respect for those Sens fans.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

seems we have found that unicorn yeti

Because Taking The Leafs Seriously Is Not An Option

by JaredFromLondon on May 6, 2009 11:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw! Successory!!

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 11:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I heard that if you ignore a big bully they’ll lose interest ;)

And it wouldn’t be a flame war it would be a flame massacre!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 12:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Good talkin witcha Odin

but I gotta go now.

by TD O'Dell on May 6, 2009 11:39 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks TD. I’m off and on for brief momnets throughout the day. Real work to do. Will be on later tonight. I just have lots of leaf friends, as you can tell. Stop the Sens/ Leafs War in here please. We’re defending the Yotes today!

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 11:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok Odin

Disappointed since 1984

by leafer1984 on May 6, 2009 11:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If there are any Keep the ’Yotes in Phoenix sites you want us to sign to rival makeitseven.ca pass it on down to the chatty cathy.

A Nation of Masochists a blog dedicated to Leafs Nation, who are continually punished but keep coming back for more.

by furcifer on May 6, 2009 11:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

We’re working on building those as we speak. There will hopefully be two. More detials later

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 11:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Odin, sorry for accidentally starting the BoO in here. Just wanted to make a little joke. Best of luck, I’ll be checking back here frequently.

by Godd Till on May 6, 2009 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No prob. Just trying to keep it on topic. Love the support though :)

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by Travis Hair on May 6, 2009 11:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yotes4Life!

Mee-Mee-Meep Meep Go Leafs Go Meep Meep! MEEP!!!

by blindfolded tank driver on May 6, 2009 11:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...

It’s been about 24 hours since I saw the first article, I guess I’ve calmed down a bit now…maybe…

I think everything’s already been said above, and like Odin and all the other ‘Yotes fans that are posting, I certainly appreciate all the support from the other hockey fans out there…especially the folks from Canada that aren’t fueling the flames.

Hockey is a HUGE part of my life and I’ve been happy to cheer on the Desert Dogs ever since I moved to Phoenix in 2005. During those short years, I’ve converted my wife from a hockey neophyte to a full-on Coyotes fanatic! Unfortunately, my job keeps me pretty much at work for long hours and Coyotes games are one of the few true date nights we get to spend together all year…it’s wonderful.

I will be severely depressed if the Coyotes up and move…not just because I will be losing those date nights, but because I’ll be losing a franchise that I’ve grown to care about an awful lot over the years. I think this team is ready to turn the corner and start winning and making the postseason, and that is going to get fans into the building. Anyone who was at the Detroit game right before the All Star Break this year got a real good taste of what hockey in the desert could be like and it was awesome…just amp that up about 100x and the playoff atmosphere at Jobing.com would be incredible. Hockey in Phoenix is not a failure and given the opportunity, we’ll succeed in getting butts in the seats…

I remember going to a Caps game 2 years ago right after Boudreau became the head coach and the stadium was 1/3 full, if that…now that franchise is selling tickets through the roof. We can have that success here, but it starts and ends with winning…and this team is close. Hopefully we’re going to get the payoff in Phoenix and not have to watch the Hamilton Mustangs take all the glory…

World Ph*cking Champs! That was fun - let's do it again...

by Moridin417 on May 6, 2009 2:01 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Goodbye Coyotes

If Wayne Gretzky can’t save a franchise, who can? I think it would be good to move the team to Hamilton, Ontario. The NHL is a regional market at best and where better to be situated than Canada! The problem with the NHL is that there are to many teams and is not fan friendly to watch on TV.

by Abbie on May 6, 2009 2:08 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

after watching the Versus camera man do the Canucks – Hawks game last night, I finally understand this “not fan friendly to watch on TV” notion.

Hockey is very TV friendly. It’s just that Versus isn’t providing the kind of quality needed to enjoy the game on TV>

by Karina on May 6, 2009 2:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It absolutely has to do with weak camera crews and arenas built with no thought given to camera placement.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 6, 2009 2:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know the facts and finances of the matter well enough to comment, but I know what it’s like to have someone try to take my team away from me. Luckily for me, Hibs survived. For your sake, I hope the Yotes do to.

You have my support and my sympathy.

"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into Iraq"
- Major Mike Shearer

by article1 on May 6, 2009 10:37 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

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Pacific Standings

	GP	W	L	OTL	PT
San Jose Fear The Fin	69	43	16	10	96
Phoenix Five For Howling	70	43	22	5	91
Los Angeles Jewels From The Crown	68	40	23	5	85
Dallas Defending Big D	69	30	26	13	73
Anaheim Anaheim Calling	68	31	29	8	70

(updated 3.17.2010 at 5:57 AM MST)

43 - 22 - 5

Streak: Won 6

Coyotes Schedule

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@ Florida Litter Box Cats	Thu 03/18	4:30 PM MST
Chicago Second City Hockey	Sat 03/20	6:00 PM MST
@ Dallas Defending Big D	Sun 03/21	4:00 PM MST
@ Chicago Second City Hockey	Tue 03/23	5:30 PM MST
@ Nashville On the Forecheck	Thu 03/25	5:00 PM MST

Last 5 Games

@ Tampa Bay Raw Charge	Tue 03/16	W 2 - 1
@ Atlanta Bird Watchers Anonymous	Sun 03/14	SO - W 3 - 2
@ Carolina Canes Country	Sat 03/13	W 4 - 0
Vancouver Nucks Misconduct	Wed 03/10	SO - W 4 - 3
Anaheim Anaheim Calling	Sat 03/06	W 4 - 0